1 00:00:03,590 --> 00:00:06,740 [Music] 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,920 okay I 3 00:00:30,110 --> 00:00:33,170 [Music] 4 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:42,760 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 5 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:46,559 with me Tony Blair standing in for my 6 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:49,719 good friends George Galloway and gatri 7 00:00:46,559 --> 00:00:53,520 over the next few weeks before I begin 8 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:53,520 my next tint as a middle east peace 9 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Envoy April Fool well I'm pleased to say 10 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,800 that Tony Blair will not be presenting 11 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,199 Sputnik hopefully he'll be on a oneway 12 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,720 journey to the ha 13 00:01:04,199 --> 00:01:08,600 soon my name is Neil Clark and I will be 14 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,520 orbiting the world with Sputnik over the 15 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:14,040 next few 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:17,360 weeks well it finally happened this week 17 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:20,799 a full 279 days after the British people 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:23,640 voted by 52% to 48% to leave the 19 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:25,479 European Union in a national referendum 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,920 prime minister Theresa May sent off 21 00:01:25,479 --> 00:01:31,520 article 50 the EU getout Clause to 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,079 Brussels she described it as a 23 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,159 historical moment from which there can 24 00:01:33,079 --> 00:01:38,640 be no turning back Nigel farage 25 00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:41,560 celebrated brexit day in typical Style 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,920 with a pint in the pub but is it really 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,520 game over for the remain camp with 28 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,000 powerful forces still opposed to it 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:51,759 could brexit yet be derailed either in 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,880 Parliament or with fresh legal 31 00:01:51,759 --> 00:01:56,920 challenges and what would the political 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:59,000 repercussions be if the government can't 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:02,079 for whatever reason deliver the clean 34 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:04,119 brexit that milli of Britain's voted for 35 00:02:02,079 --> 00:02:06,479 drawing me now to discuss these very hot 36 00:02:04,119 --> 00:02:09,080 issues is the publisher and editor of 37 00:02:06,479 --> 00:02:11,360 the politics first magazine Dr Marcus 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,040 Papadopoulos Marcus welcome on board the 39 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,879 Sputnik it's a pleasure to be on here 40 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,000 thanks very much so what happens next 41 00:02:14,879 --> 00:02:18,120 we've got article 50 finally sent off 42 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,040 and now we've got two years of 43 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,920 negotiations haven't we this is a 44 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:26,000 pivotal time for Britain the UK economy 45 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:28,160 is now in unchartered Waters and no one 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:31,040 really knows what's going to happen to 47 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,959 Britain in a post brexit world uh we 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,040 have to give credit to Theresa May she's 49 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:37,280 stuck to her timetable she did say late 50 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,680 last year she would invoke article 50 at 51 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:43,000 the end of March and she has done that 52 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,920 but uh as I said we hear experts on both 53 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,560 sides the brexit side and the remain 54 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:49,200 side saying different things we hear 55 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,120 from the remain side that it's going to 56 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,159 be a disaster there will be an imminent 57 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,680 recession and we hear from the brexit 58 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:58,720 side that there is this golden future in 59 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,720 store for Britain I suspect the answer 60 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,280 will be somewhere in the the middle well 61 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,319 the pound has gone up this week isn't it 62 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,040 after article 50 was finally sent I mean 63 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:07,799 how much can we read into that Marcus I 64 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,480 don't think we should read too much into 65 00:03:07,799 --> 00:03:12,480 that uh the there's lots of fluctuations 66 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,640 regarding the pound and we saw that in 67 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,120 the immediate aftermath of brexit last 68 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:19,480 year we've seen the pound go up and go 69 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,760 down the real crucial period will be in 70 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,840 the next two years let's see how the 71 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,680 pound fars how how the pound FES over 72 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,239 the next couple of years because then 73 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,799 that would be an indication during that 74 00:03:28,239 --> 00:03:33,080 period of time to see if foreign uh 75 00:03:30,799 --> 00:03:35,280 investors in this country will actually 76 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,000 remain or if they will go David Cameron 77 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,200 and George Osborne last year attempted 78 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:42,000 to bully and bludgeon uh the British 79 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:44,480 people into voting to remain by saying 80 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,560 that uh in the immediate aftermath of 81 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,560 brexit there would be a recession a 82 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,080 terrible recession now of course that 83 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,239 was a gross uh exaggeration but at the 84 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,519 same time when we hear uh from the 85 00:03:53,239 --> 00:03:57,840 brexit camp about a golden future in 86 00:03:55,519 --> 00:04:00,560 store we have to seriously question that 87 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:03,200 what does a golden future actually mean 88 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,400 because at the moment Britain is plagued 89 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,120 with problems we have energy prices 90 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,799 which are constantly going up we have 91 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,519 train faires which are constantly going 92 00:04:08,799 --> 00:04:13,959 up 4 million children in Britain live in 93 00:04:11,519 --> 00:04:16,720 poverty one of the highest levels in 94 00:04:13,959 --> 00:04:18,880 Europe so what does a golden future mean 95 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,799 I think what it comes down to is we have 96 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:24,240 heard people from the brexit camp and 97 00:04:20,799 --> 00:04:26,639 the rain Camp make Grand statements but 98 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,800 unsubstantiated statements and the 99 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:29,759 politics of all of this how's it going 100 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,560 to pan out in Westminster we know the 101 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:32,880 labor line the labor this week here 102 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,440 starma said there's going to be these 103 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,160 six tests that the labor party going to 104 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,039 hold the government to and they would 105 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,960 only vote for the brexit deal if it goes 106 00:04:38,039 --> 00:04:42,919 along with those six points uh labor is 107 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,280 is quite split on this isn't it well in 108 00:04:42,919 --> 00:04:47,160 theory this is a great opportunity for 109 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:50,400 the opposition a great opportunity for 110 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,400 labor and Jeremy Corbin however the 111 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,039 labor party or more specifically the 112 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,360 Parliamentary labor party is beset by 113 00:04:55,039 --> 00:04:59,960 problems there is an there is a civil 114 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,080 war going on in Westminster at the 115 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:05,039 moment and we saw that hours after 116 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,039 brexit last year when there was a real 117 00:05:05,039 --> 00:05:10,080 opportunity for labor to say to the 118 00:05:07,039 --> 00:05:12,000 country uh this is who we are this is 119 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,720 what we believe in this is how we want 120 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,759 to implement it please listen to us but 121 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,919 instead there was an attempt to 122 00:05:16,759 --> 00:05:22,840 overthrow Jeremy Corby so they blew it 123 00:05:19,919 --> 00:05:24,199 last year and uh nearly one year on 124 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,039 we're coming up to nearly the first 125 00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:30,120 anniversary of the referendum and labor 126 00:05:27,039 --> 00:05:32,880 hasn't really changed Jeremy Corbin has 127 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,520 tremendous problems to have to deal with 128 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,400 and I think he is trying to appease the 129 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,280 Parliamentary labor party which of 130 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,560 course is the uh is the threat to his 131 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,680 leadership the uh the threat to his 132 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,240 leadership does not come from the 133 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,479 Grassroots it comes from the 134 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,919 Parliamentary labor party so he is 135 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:50,880 trying to tame them he's trying to keep 136 00:05:48,919 --> 00:05:52,919 uh or trying to create some sort of new 137 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,120 Unity at Westminster but it's not 138 00:05:52,919 --> 00:05:57,759 working however on the other hand we do 139 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:00,280 need to be uh we need to be fair uh what 140 00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:02,520 people say um in opposition doesn't 141 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:04,039 necessarily mean they will stick to that 142 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,840 when they become for example the leader 143 00:06:04,039 --> 00:06:07,599 of the opposition or when they become 144 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:09,840 Prime Minister we saw that if William ha 145 00:06:07,599 --> 00:06:13,599 prior to the 2010 general election he 146 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:15,440 was one of the most vly anti-eu T MPS he 147 00:06:13,599 --> 00:06:18,440 becomes foreign secretary almost 148 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,639 overnight he becomes Pro so much so that 149 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,639 conservative backbenches start referring 150 00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:25,039 to him in a derogatory way as the 151 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:26,840 Foreigner yes absolutely and what about 152 00:06:25,039 --> 00:06:28,160 the United Kingdom where you know 153 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,360 there's a real threat Now isn't there of 154 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,440 a break of the UK if if brexit does go 155 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,759 ahead with Scotland to talk about a 156 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,720 second referendum there how's that going 157 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:37,720 to pen out and of course Northern 158 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,520 Ireland as well where we've got Shin 159 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,840 coming out very strongly in favor of EU 160 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:45,120 membership well the irony of course is 161 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:47,800 that uh British foreign policy for 162 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,560 decades now has created turmoil around 163 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,840 the world and has resulted in numerous 164 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,639 countries breaking up for example 165 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:56,680 Yugoslavia so it could be now that 166 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:59,280 Britain actually faces the distinct 167 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,840 possibility of breaking up or collapsing 168 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:03,160 how you want to word it and of course 169 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:05,360 the first one in the union could very 170 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,599 well be Scotland because Scottish people 171 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,960 are starting to realize that in the 172 00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:11,879 immediate aftermath of Britain 173 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,520 withdrawing from the EU something like 174 00:07:11,879 --> 00:07:15,639 880,000 jobs in Scotland would be lost 175 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,800 and that's just in the immediate 176 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:20,240 aftermath what will happen six months 177 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,919 after or a year after I think in regards 178 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:25,240 to Northern Ireland um that's not the 179 00:07:22,919 --> 00:07:27,120 same because we have about a million 180 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,240 Protestants in norn Ireland who of 181 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,639 course are overwhelmingly unionists in 182 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,400 the Cath Catholics are still in the 183 00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:35,240 minority so I don't think there's any 184 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,360 real chance of the north V voting to 185 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,199 reunify uh with the Republic of Ireland 186 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,319 with the South however the day could 187 00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:43,400 come when the Catholics or will come 188 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:45,039 when the Catholics are the majority and 189 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,599 that is when Northern irelands could 190 00:07:45,039 --> 00:07:49,919 vote to reunify with their brothers in 191 00:07:47,599 --> 00:07:52,800 Dublin bearing in mind what's at risk 192 00:07:49,919 --> 00:07:54,560 and the fact that UK could uh could fall 193 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,440 apart because of this and bearing in 194 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,960 mind the very powerful interest against 195 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,039 still against brexit we're talking about 196 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,440 people like Sir Richard Branson 197 00:08:00,039 --> 00:08:04,360 who's forming this group as need to 198 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,080 fight brexit our friend Tony Blair who 199 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,240 is campaigning against it Peter 200 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,720 mandelson a lot of establishment people 201 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,120 don't want this to go ahead could it 202 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,840 still be derailed I think history has 203 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,960 shown Neil that anything is possible and 204 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,080 anything is possible in politics who 205 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,120 would have thought that uh brexit would 206 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,599 happen who would have thought that 207 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:25,080 Donald Trump would become president so I 208 00:08:22,599 --> 00:08:27,879 think it would be uh only a fool would 209 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:30,800 say at this moment in time that uh 210 00:08:27,879 --> 00:08:32,399 brexit will be implemented I think we 211 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,360 have to be very very cautious because 212 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:37,240 there are some very powerful figures who 213 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,120 are opposed to it industrialists and 214 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,039 city of London absolutely multinational 215 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,880 companies multinational companies and I 216 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:44,760 think we have to be fair that uh 217 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,360 Britain's membership of the EU is not a 218 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,959 black and white issue I personally do 219 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,000 not like the European Union for 220 00:08:48,959 --> 00:08:53,120 ideological reasons and foreign policy 221 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,560 reasons ideological because it it 222 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,680 supports privatization which I think is 223 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:59,160 uh deadly to a country in particular 224 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:01,079 poorer countries and foreign policy 225 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,120 because what the European Union did in 226 00:09:01,079 --> 00:09:05,959 regard to Yugoslavia Libya and Ukraine 227 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:08,240 of course Ukraine and uh and now Syria 228 00:09:05,959 --> 00:09:10,920 but on the other hand I do believe the 229 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,160 wealthy countries in the EU actually do 230 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,920 benefit so when people say that uh this 231 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,440 is a this a revolution in process I 232 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,360 think that really should be kept to 233 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,720 Hollywoods but if brexit were to be 234 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,320 blocked Markus by whatever means legal 235 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,480 or or by Parliament then surely there'd 236 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:29,000 be the public the public reaction to 237 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,040 this would be so Furious A revolution it 238 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,800 would have here going by consecutive 239 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:36,079 opinion polls which have been held since 240 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,600 last uh summer that uh a significant 241 00:09:36,079 --> 00:09:40,399 percentage of people who voted for 242 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,680 brexit now regret it so we can't say 243 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:45,120 with certainty that most people in 244 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:47,760 England are actually in favor of Britain 245 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,480 leaveing the European Union but if 246 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:53,200 somehow brexit was derailed will there 247 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,920 be protests on the streets in central 248 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,000 London outside Parliament undoubtedly 249 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:01,200 but there is no history in Britain to 250 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,240 show that the British people are a 251 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:06,519 revolutionary minded people that they 252 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,839 have what it takes to stick it out um so 253 00:10:06,519 --> 00:10:09,839 I don't believe there will be a 254 00:10:07,839 --> 00:10:11,600 revolution and if brexit doesn't happen 255 00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:13,279 I think there will be a lot of protests 256 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,640 but they will simply die away issue this 257 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,320 might be the issue this could just be 258 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,000 the straw that broke the camels back 259 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,880 because not just about brexit but about 260 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,399 the fact that people will feel cheated 261 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:25,360 whether you're for or against you know 262 00:10:21,399 --> 00:10:27,760 we had a referendum 52% voted to leave 263 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,640 and if by some means that wasn't uh 264 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,880 didn't happen then people right rightly 265 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,560 are going to feel cheated in the 266 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,440 Democratic process that they've been 267 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:38,639 lied to or or or or let down I think the 268 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,959 the British people they spoke last 269 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:44,880 summer um though they spoke by very very 270 00:10:41,959 --> 00:10:46,880 slim uh majority so if brexit doesn't 271 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,240 happen undoubtedly a lot of the people 272 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:52,000 who voted for brexit will feel cheated 273 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,040 but we have to also take into 274 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,040 consideration the British mindset and I 275 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,839 don't want to generalize but the British 276 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:01,120 people are known to moan about a lot of 277 00:10:58,839 --> 00:11:03,560 things but the weather we about the 278 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,680 weather but we don't act upon anything 279 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:07,920 we moan about the increase on the 1st of 280 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:10,560 January every year of train fairs though 281 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,720 we don't do anything about it we moan 282 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:14,639 about the energy prices going up 283 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,600 consistently but we don't do anything 284 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:18,760 about it I mean they are real serious 285 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,880 issues which are causing millions of 286 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,760 households in Britain serious problems 287 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,200 but no real action is taken by the 288 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,639 British people we could renationalize 289 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,200 them now we're out of the EU or when we 290 00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:30,480 are out the EU would be easy wouldn't it 291 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,120 this is the left wi case exit case yes 292 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,480 but that is not going to happen under we 293 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,040 could re no no but but the hope would be 294 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,519 that if there were to be a different 295 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,120 government coming in they would be a 296 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:41,079 more easy for them to renationalize the 297 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,519 railways get our ra fares down I think 298 00:11:41,079 --> 00:11:44,240 that was the main argument for lexit 299 00:11:42,519 --> 00:11:46,040 really wasn't it that economically yes 300 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,120 the government would be able to change 301 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,399 our economic system but that all depends 302 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,519 on a labor government coming to power 303 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:55,839 and it doesn't seem uh possible at this 304 00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:57,480 moment in time that Jeremy Corbin will 305 00:11:55,839 --> 00:11:59,440 win the next general election so that 306 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,920 means there's a distinct possibility the 307 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,000 conservatives will be in power 308 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,920 indefinitely and if Scotland gets his 309 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,320 independence then it will be very 310 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,560 difficult to see how labor could ever 311 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,920 form a government uh at Westminster 312 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:12,079 again because it means labor would have 313 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,360 to win seats in the South well only Tony 314 00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:16,480 Blair did that by making uh the labor 315 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,320 party essentially another conservative 316 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,560 party certainly be very hard for them 317 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,040 wouldn't it but isn't there the biggest 318 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:23,600 danger of all perhaps if we have a kind 319 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,360 of fudged brexit the sort of British 320 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,480 compromise that doesn't please anybody 321 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,360 yes that could cause a lot of confusion 322 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,440 in Britain and I think a lot of foreign 323 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,600 investors uh would feel somewhat 324 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,480 perplexed in that sort of scenario I 325 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:38,519 think an investor wants to know one way 326 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,360 or the other way it's either good news 327 00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:42,040 or it's bad news if it's bad news they 328 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,040 can work on it if it's good news they 329 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,600 can extend on that but in the Middle 330 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,880 with uncertainty that's how uh Britain 331 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,320 could lose a lot of its foreign 332 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,279 investment so it needs to be implemented 333 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,959 it's either implemented or it's not not 334 00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:55,160 in the middle absolutely well thank you 335 00:12:53,959 --> 00:12:56,760 very much Mark it's been a great 336 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,160 discussion we've got two more years of 337 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,120 this to go so I'm sure you'll be on here 338 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,079 again on the spotnick what's going on 339 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,040 thank you very much thank you very much 340 00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:07,720 don't go away because coming up next 341 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,720 after the break we'll be discussing 342 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Yemen welcome back to Sputnik with me 343 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:18,720 Neil Clark standing in for Georg and 344 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:21,160 gatri don't mention the war that line 345 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,519 from the classic 1970s sitcom Faulty 346 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,440 Towers sums up much of the mainstream 347 00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:26,720 coverage of the appalling terror attack 348 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,680 in Westminster 349 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,440 recently there have been plenty of 350 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,959 coling es from pundits on what we need 351 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,720 to do next but it seems that questioning 352 00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:37,600 British foreign policy in particular in 353 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,519 relation to the series of regime change 354 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,720 Wars against secular governments in the 355 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:45,839 Middle East and how this is directly led 356 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:47,639 to the rise of Isis remains a taboo as 357 00:13:45,839 --> 00:13:51,120 does the backing the West is given to 358 00:13:47,639 --> 00:13:53,199 radical jihadists in Syria and the close 359 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,079 and cozy relationship we have with the 360 00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:58,320 Kingdom of Saudi 361 00:13:55,079 --> 00:14:00,040 Arabia Instead The proar Establishment 362 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,079 always eager to point the finger of 363 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,800 blame at someone else look for new 364 00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:07,360 scapegoats the very latest being the 365 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,720 encrypted Messenger Service WhatsApp 366 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,000 which has earned the wrath of Home 367 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,320 Secretary Amber Rudd the same Amber Rudd 368 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,720 incidentally who sat for many years on 369 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:19,320 the political Council of the proar 370 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,880 neoconservative Henry Jackson 371 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,279 Society to discuss the contradictions 372 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,360 which lie at the heart of British 373 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:27,560 foreign policy in the soal war and 374 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,240 Terror I'm joined Now by Katherine 375 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,759 shakam the director at The shafner 376 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,720 Institute for Middle Eastern studies and 377 00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:37,480 the author of the tale of grand 378 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:40,000 resistance Yemen the wahhabi and the 379 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,839 house of saoud Katherine welcome on 380 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,959 board Sputnik right thank you very much 381 00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:45,560 for having me the hypocrisy really is 382 00:14:43,959 --> 00:14:46,440 off the scale isn't it from the British 383 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,480 government and the political 384 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,800 establishment let's think back that less 385 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,399 than four years ago the same British 386 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,839 government wanted us to bomb Syria to 387 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:57,199 bomb the Syrian government which was 388 00:14:54,839 --> 00:14:59,920 fighting against Isis and al- nazra 389 00:14:57,199 --> 00:15:02,120 front and other terrorist groups and uh 390 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,800 now this same government is is alarming 391 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,199 us about the threat of radical Islamic 392 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,720 extremism and yet they were on the side 393 00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:08,800 of these people uh they are they are 394 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,639 still on the side of these people in 395 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,120 Syria and elsewhere now it's very 396 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:14,240 interesting because it's a kind of a 397 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,480 two-speed policy here where when we're 398 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,279 talking about the midle east in Syria um 399 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,880 as you mentioned then you know suddenly 400 00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:22,120 we have to uh fight you know terrorism 401 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,240 we have to address the issue of 402 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,519 counterterrorism we have to you know do 403 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,480 something about regime change which 404 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:29,240 makes no sense whatsoever because 405 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,639 against secular governments exactly 406 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,399 because technically speaking president 407 00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:34,880 bash Assad has absolutely nothing to do 408 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:36,560 with terrorism I mean he's not the one 409 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,440 who's promoting it he's not he's the one 410 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,360 who's fighting it uh with the help of 411 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,880 Iran Russia and um hisbah so you would 412 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,000 like to think that Britain would support 413 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,959 a government who's actually actively 414 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,000 we're doing the very opposite aren't we 415 00:15:46,959 --> 00:15:49,519 trying to get rid of the Syrian 416 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,000 Government tried that for many years 417 00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:53,120 exactly but then something very 418 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,959 interesting happens is that when uh a 419 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,000 so-called mate uh cross over the border 420 00:15:55,959 --> 00:16:00,120 and comes to to crash in London or in 421 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,480 the UK or somewhere else in Europe then 422 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,319 he becomes a dangerous radical that we 423 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,079 need to deal with and whatever crimes 424 00:16:04,319 --> 00:16:07,720 they commit is a crime against Freedom 425 00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:09,560 everywhere which I found very 426 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,000 interesting because it doesn't seem to 427 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,440 bother the British government when it 428 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,360 happens in the Middle East and they're 429 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,920 okay fing them and calling them 430 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,360 moderates slapping you know different 431 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,240 euphemism or labels to them uh but when 432 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,720 it comes crashing against their people 433 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,000 and and horrible crimes are being 434 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,680 committed against their Nationals uh 435 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,440 then you become an islamist problem but 436 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,319 and they the one funding the islamist 437 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,399 problem but actually aligning them 438 00:16:29,319 --> 00:16:33,160 themselves with the likes of Saudi 439 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:36,120 Arabia Qatar Turkey um and other I would 440 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:38,519 say um you know Grand war criminals and 441 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,480 and Grand radical maker or architects of 442 00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:42,800 Terror we know this to be a fact it's 443 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,720 not it's not you know uh a fairy tale 444 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,920 anymore U they are proof they are you 445 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,160 know it has been documented um you know 446 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,680 this is something while we're doing this 447 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,319 why why is the British government on the 448 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,120 one hand condemning so-called Islamic 449 00:16:51,319 --> 00:16:55,959 extremism radicalism at home yet is 450 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,440 supporting it in Syria has done for a 451 00:16:55,959 --> 00:17:00,360 number of years yes Libya as well of 452 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,759 course when Muhammad Gaddafi said that 453 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,160 the West Was lining up with Al-Qaeda he 454 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:05,199 was ridiculed but we know that was the 455 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,799 case so why are we doing this why are we 456 00:17:05,199 --> 00:17:08,039 backing these people against these 457 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,160 secular government what what's the sort 458 00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:11,600 of end game what's this all about I 459 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,919 think there's many answers to this but 460 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,640 the first thing I would say is access uh 461 00:17:13,919 --> 00:17:17,439 and I'm talking about geopolitical 462 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,079 access in that the Middle East um is 463 00:17:17,439 --> 00:17:21,240 very interesting geopolitically from a 464 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:23,559 military standpoint uh where countries 465 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,079 such as you know the US Britain um the 466 00:17:23,559 --> 00:17:27,880 UK and others would like to have a 467 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,440 strong footing in the Middle East to be 468 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,240 able to project their own policy and 469 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,160 continue to have some kind of a remnant 470 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,640 of imperialism um if you want to call it 471 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,520 that and then of course there's the 472 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,559 issue of natural resources and access to 473 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,760 Natural Resources when you look at Iraq 474 00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:44,720 Syria um you know and to an extend bahin 475 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,760 and Yemen and Libya of course um and 476 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,679 Egypt now because Egypt is on the firing 477 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,840 line uh you need to understand that you 478 00:17:48,679 --> 00:17:53,600 know they there are billions to be made 479 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,440 in terms of you know access to Natural 480 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,799 Resources not just oil but we're talking 481 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,080 about gold and minerals and and other 482 00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:01,280 things Afghanistan as well um so you 483 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,559 have to compute this and then of course 484 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,600 there's now the you know this idea that 485 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:08,559 we starting to to kind of wrap oursel 486 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,120 our mind around where Saudi Arabia yeah 487 00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:12,000 you know the West now Western Capital 488 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,360 are actually promoting Saudi Arabia's 489 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,760 agenda in the Middle East acting I would 490 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:19,240 say a proxy for Saudi Arabia not the 491 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,520 other way around anymore um helping them 492 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,720 manifest a new reality in the Middle 493 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:27,120 East by funding propping uh aiding 494 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,400 abating and and offering cover when it 495 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:31,520 comes to the media to the war crimes is 496 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,960 committing in the Middle East and Yemen 497 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,840 how does that fit in the war in Yemen 498 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,240 how does that fit in with this General 499 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,039 so-called war on terror and the 500 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,640 relationship with Saudi Arabia we don't 501 00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:41,159 hear too much about it do we in the 502 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,440 British media comparing to what we saw 503 00:18:41,159 --> 00:18:46,760 about Aleppo and the claims of genocide 504 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,120 going on we had to intervene in Aleppo 505 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,720 because the syrians and the Russians and 506 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,360 yet in Yemen we've got a humanitarian 507 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,799 catastrophe going on haven't we you WR 508 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,159 book about this we do yes I did I did um 509 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:56,919 the thing is with Yemen it's a very 510 00:18:55,159 --> 00:18:59,840 complicated Beast because it actually 511 00:18:56,919 --> 00:19:01,480 exposes the Western hypocrisy in that uh 512 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,840 we know we cry often I mean some some 513 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,520 media have come Channel 4 did 514 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,000 documentary a few months back crying 515 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,480 over the famine in Yemen which is a 516 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,480 reality and yes we should cry uh but 517 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,000 who's who's engineering that famine is 518 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,880 the UN is Manning a humanitarian 519 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,159 blockade which is illegal uh but they 520 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,039 still doing it anyway and then they 521 00:19:15,159 --> 00:19:18,440 crying calling for funds to be released 522 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,840 to the yemeni people which is fair 523 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,559 enough but then why are you Manning a 524 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,600 humanitarian blockade in the first place 525 00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:25,320 because Saudi Arabia ask for it and the 526 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,720 problem in Yemen is that Yemen was not 527 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,919 supposed to be a long War uh but then it 528 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,840 turned out to be a long drawn out War um 529 00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:33,760 and then it exposes the Western agenda 530 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,960 and of course Saudi Arabia war crimes 531 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,240 and the the latent um genocide that 532 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,480 they're committing against the yemeni 533 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,640 people Yemen is a blueprint for wahabism 534 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:46,679 um the Saudi Arabian government is 535 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:48,640 trying to imprint itself on Yemen on the 536 00:19:46,679 --> 00:19:50,760 Arabic Peninsula trying to again 537 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,799 manifest a new reality and essentially 538 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,799 buy you know Yemen to its wahhabist 539 00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:57,200 agenda and we ought to be very very 540 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:59,799 scared because if you consider that you 541 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,799 know we've seen how you know a Jordanian 542 00:19:59,799 --> 00:20:03,159 pilot was burned alive how many people 543 00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:05,080 have been you know have seen their head 544 00:20:03,159 --> 00:20:07,240 chopped off women have been sold to 545 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,400 sexual exploitation well Saudi Arabia is 546 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,480 doing in Yemen is even worse because 547 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,240 they are genociding an entire people you 548 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:16,120 talking about 26 million people now um 549 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,080 that have been ear Mark for death and no 550 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,520 one is saying anything it's fascinating 551 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280 isn't it when you think of the liberal 552 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,679 newspapers but paper like The Observer 553 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,440 Etc columnist like Nick Cohen who always 554 00:20:23,679 --> 00:20:27,400 calling for intervention against the 555 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,240 West official enemies over war crimes 556 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,880 Etc or genocides and yet 557 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,320 these people have been very silent on 558 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,120 Yemen haven't they they they their 559 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,880 silence I think speaks volumes they they 560 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:38,280 don't want an intervention there to save 561 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,480 lives it seems oh no they don't and uh 562 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,480 quite the opposite it's quite 563 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,640 astonishing isn't it that the 564 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,280 humanitarian the great humanitarians uh 565 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,960 haven't got a thing to say about it no 566 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,640 nothing but the thing is if they were to 567 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,520 actually speak speak you know against 568 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,799 the crime which are committing in Yemen 569 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,320 uh they would have to speak directly 570 00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:55,400 against Riyad and it's wahhabist regime 571 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,400 and this is something that they're not 572 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,120 prepared to do uh for very obvious 573 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,440 reason I mean money is flowing towards 574 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:03,880 Western capitals um the Saudi government 575 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,280 is buying billions worth of weapons uh 576 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,919 and of course you know Britain and other 577 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,760 capitals do not want to lose the cash 578 00:21:06,919 --> 00:21:10,360 care I would say so of course they quiet 579 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,400 and you know who cares about Yemen Yemen 580 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,080 is a poor country that is standing up 581 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,320 against wahabism um we they don't want 582 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,720 to make too much noise about this 583 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,919 because then you would actually sit them 584 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,440 on the wrong side of History qu you know 585 00:21:19,919 --> 00:21:23,240 openly they don't want to do this they 586 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,520 don't want to admit to guilt and you 587 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,840 can't have this argument that uh you 588 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,440 know Prince Salman went to Washington um 589 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,360 I think it was about two weeks ago 590 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,480 accusing Iran of promoting Terror but 591 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:36,279 really we know that wahabism is not a 592 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,200 product coming out of Iran because of 593 00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:39,919 course that would be counterproductive 594 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,600 to to Iran which is you know represents 595 00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:44,320 Shia Islam 90% Shia why would they 596 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,320 create a monster that thinks you know 597 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,480 they Annihilation it would be ridiculous 598 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,159 and of course we know that you know 599 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,159 fting come from Saudi Arabia that they 600 00:21:49,159 --> 00:21:54,400 are being trained by Saudi Arabia um and 601 00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:56,000 and being armed with Western men weapons 602 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,840 um so I think it's all just about 603 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,960 creating this cover and trying to just 604 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,360 weave ridiculous narrative around 605 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,159 people's ears to try to put them to 606 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,080 sleep it's not working anymore so what 607 00:22:03,159 --> 00:22:06,679 can be done about this I mean you know 608 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,080 we know what's going on you you you've 609 00:22:06,679 --> 00:22:09,880 said that Saudi Arabia is playing a key 610 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,320 role in this uh there are some people 611 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,240 who would argue that Saudi Arabia is 612 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,159 actually a proxy for the West the other 613 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,960 argument you've argued that actually 614 00:22:15,159 --> 00:22:18,559 it's the Saudis pressurizing the West if 615 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,960 you like to go along with this yes we're 616 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:22,039 selling them weaponry and making a lot 617 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,679 of money from it well I think the Saudi 618 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:26,480 Lobby has gained a lot of influence and 619 00:22:24,679 --> 00:22:28,320 the West has kind of ered at its own 620 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,039 power and as basically acting like I 621 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:34,000 said proxy Coincidence of Interest here 622 00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:37,120 between Saudi Arabia the US Britain 623 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,240 Israel yes in targeting Shia countries 624 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:41,640 and Shia and secular governments in the 625 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,279 Middle East and backing Sunni radicalism 626 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:47,080 and wahabism well so everybody if you 627 00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:50,120 like in that Alliance that rehad uh uh 628 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,159 Washington London sort of Alliance got 629 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,360 an interest in this yes no they do but 630 00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:54,400 were they really trying to do because I 631 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:55,960 think we need to be careful when you 632 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,080 talk about wahabism has nothing to do 633 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,159 with sun Islam this is the story they're 634 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,960 trying to tell you're trying to to 635 00:23:00,159 --> 00:23:03,720 create this sector and div between Sun 636 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,960 and Sh Islam which doesn't exist by the 637 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,480 way it's it's again it's a fairy tale so 638 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,320 but it's it's very interesting for them 639 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,360 to just divide and conquer because then 640 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,960 you know it's it's been the age of the 641 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,600 Imperial strategy is it when the British 642 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,799 set up Saudi Arabia in the first place 643 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,480 part plan to stop Arab Unity and coming 644 00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:21,240 together exactly so while sun and Sh are 645 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,440 arguing over ridiculous uh you know 646 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:27,559 theology called you know um whoit 647 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:29,240 technical the taking over and imprinting 648 00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:31,240 themselves onto politic and religious 649 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,679 religion U and whatnot and it's 650 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,279 dangerous uh but of course you know if 651 00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:37,840 you want a solution it's very simple you 652 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:39,679 need to to realign uh foreign policies 653 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,919 and actually choose your friends a bit 654 00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:44,760 more carefully not you know not not call 655 00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:46,880 SA Arabia which is a grand war criminal 656 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,640 regime a friend of Britain or a friend 657 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,039 of Washington if the Saudi Lobby is so 658 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,840 strong we all know about our 659 00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:53,279 relationship with the US is it likely to 660 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,520 happen there going to be a bit of a a 661 00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:57,080 sea shift isn't there for Britain to 662 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,320 change its foreign policy perhaps Jeremy 663 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,559 Corbin could offer some hope of that or 664 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,720 in the labor party there might be a 665 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,679 shift there which is why he's coming 666 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,520 under such attack possibly he has 667 00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:07,640 criticized Saudi Arabia hasn't he yes he 668 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,440 did but I think I mean will come a time 669 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,919 where you know Britain and others uh 670 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,679 will need to decide um you know what to 671 00:24:11,919 --> 00:24:15,120 do in terms of their future and National 672 00:24:13,679 --> 00:24:17,000 Security is at risk when you think about 673 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,360 it when you think about what happened um 674 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,880 you know uh at Parliament this kind of 675 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:23,480 attack or really a Harbinger or or maybe 676 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,440 I would say a warning of what is to come 677 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,080 if we allow for wahabism to further kind 678 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,039 of embed itself of 679 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,360 course it's all about YouTube the Home 680 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:35,159 Secretary would rather focus on internet 681 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:36,640 providers technology it's techy and not 682 00:24:35,159 --> 00:24:40,679 focus too much on the relationship with 683 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:43,799 Saudi Arabia or oil issues or or United 684 00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:45,480 States foll United States it find a 685 00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:47,720 culprit away from the real issues and 686 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,159 try to to get public attention directed 687 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760 over there while you know something is 688 00:24:49,159 --> 00:24:52,440 going on over here it's always the same 689 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,840 technique that they're using but I I'm 690 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,640 I'm thinking that people now are 691 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,320 actually quite awake um and are 692 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,000 realizing that I mean it is all a lie 693 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,520 when you look at Syria think Syria 694 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,919 really kind of like tore a whole in the 695 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,440 narrative uh it has last for so long 696 00:25:02,919 --> 00:25:06,399 that people can see the truth coming out 697 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,039 to the surface now uh it's interesting 698 00:25:06,399 --> 00:25:10,440 and I think Yemen will play a role as 699 00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:12,600 well in in really shifting this idea 700 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,840 that Iran is a problem or that you know 701 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,520 um that there is there is no real um 702 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,080 Islamic problem it's a wahhabist problem 703 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,600 when we wake up to that and realize that 704 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,399 wahhabism doesn't speak for religion 705 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,399 anywhere and is actually just a 706 00:25:23,399 --> 00:25:27,840 political construct of fascist system 707 00:25:26,399 --> 00:25:29,679 then maybe we'll get somewhere well 708 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,000 let's hope so 709 00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:32,960 great thanks so much for coming on the 710 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,080 spck my pleasure well unfortunately 711 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,760 that's all we have time for today I've 712 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,600 been Neil Clark standing in for George 713 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:44,120 Galloway and gatri and as George would 714 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,120 say it's been marvelous